stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/601)
22:23:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Your own AOL of the future is a roadblock as well.
>
> Now, Clairvoyance is a different thing entirely. Seeing the future has been
> done and is currently being done by gifted individuals. But, it is not RV.
>
> "Psychic seeing" is not RV and RV is not "psychic seeing". RV is a protocol
> driven procedure used by individuals for viewing targets - it is not a way
> to view the future. Sometimes people do, and that's OK. But, it is
> inaccurate and uncontrolled. In other words, you could, and most likely
> will, get burned.
>
> Jerry
:-) It's only inaccurate and uncontrolled if you can't do it... don't
you think?
What good is rv if it only tells you what someone else in your
organization already knows? It doesn't seen as if that gives one much
of an advantage...
..... not that I would know of course...
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/602)
22:24:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi Glynn,
Future info doesn't validate itself until the event actually occurs -
that's the point. So making decisions based on unvalidated info is
unrealistic and irresponsible.
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/603)
22:24:12
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
What strikes me odd in all of this future business is that, if we are accessing
the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is suppose to
be
a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be distorted by our human
persception of past, present or future.... so why are we not able to see the
"static" implication and content involving the target as it IS in the future?.
Seems to me that when we miss, we missed the target... that's all. The future
continues being what it is. Remote Viewing doesn't validate the future...seems
to
me that we just AOL when we do not get the exact results.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/604)
22:24:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>:-) It's only inaccurate and uncontrolled if you can't do it... don't
>you think?
No, I don't think. You will find out in the world of PSI that you may not
accurately assess info in a controlled manner, even though you think you are.
Sound convoluted and confusing? That's because it is. It's not a rational
(in our sense of the word) experience "out there".
>What good is rv if it only tells you what someone else in your
>organization already knows? It doesn't seen as if that gives one much
>of an advantage...
> ..... not that I would know of course...
The other person doesn't know details, you supply that. And the info gets
compared with other viewers' data. That's how results get compiled in a
global sense.
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/605)
22:24:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>What strikes me odd in all of this future business is that, if we are
accessing the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it
is suppose to be a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be
distorted by our human persception of past, present or future.... >>
Once again, time is not a continuum, it is a parallel phenomena. Nothing is
cast in stone. It's a dynamic, changing environment that's constantly
evolving. You can't put your finger on it - although sometimes you can get
lucky. There reallly is no past, present or future - the only IS.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/606)
22:24:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Jerome,
I don't want to come off like a dumb blonde, but....
How can the future IS (static) but yet be dynamic?
I think we have a relativity issue here. Dynamic to whom?
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/607)
22:24:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
On Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:52:59 -0700, electrix wrote:
>the matrix, the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is
>suppose to be a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be
>distorted by our human persception of past, present or future....
It may be timeless, but wouldn't it still be affected by the perceptions that
make up its whole?
Siochain,
Vikki
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/608)
22:25:00
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> "Psychic seeing" is not RV and RV is not "psychic seeing". RV is a protocol
> driven procedure used by individuals for viewing targets - it is not a way
> to view the future. Sometimes people do, and that's OK. But, it is
> inaccurate and uncontrolled. In other words, you could, and most likely
> will, get burned.
>
Are you saying that the clairvoyant gets his info from some other source
than the RVer?
What source did Joe MacMoneagle get his future events from?
As far as Akashic records....wasn't that where Edgar Cayce was supposed
to be getting
his info? His prediction record is ...what.....zero?
Rich
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/609)
22:25:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Before you guys send me to a mental institution...let us establish a few
things...
1. There is no one that knows for certain the construct of the future. We are
all hypothesizing.
2. If we are going to use the Collective Unconscious principle...then we will
have to assign this place where the ALL is imprinted.
3. If we, with our human senses which is occasionally unreliable, *perceive*
past, present and future. The fact however is that we are observing motion
against a state that is static (in a state of Relativity) i.e. a Collective
Unconscious and its content that simply EXIST whether we experience it or not,
and its not *moving* ...converting itself from past, present to future.
4. The ridiculous idea that we are using convoluted protocols with RV to
*change* the future sounds to me like we are playing God. The cause/effect is
totally backwards.
5. The Collective Unconscious does not change or affect our perception. We do!
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/610)
22:25:23
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Rich Krankoski wrote:
> As far as Akashic records....wasn't that where Edgar Cayce was supposed
> to be getting
> his info? His prediction record is ...what.....zero?
I am afraid you are not well read on Edgar Cayce achievements..otherwise you
wouldn't be saying this. Let's just say he had hits and misses. But had enough
hits to be consulted by the Presidents at the time and be of great value to
those
who sought to resolve all kinds of personal problems which SOLVE their
dilemma...regardless of whether he "went" into the past or future. Of course,
there are some that "interpreted" his hits and misses...but heck, don't we do
that when we analyze an RV session? The goods are only as good as the Analysis.
electrix
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/611)
22:25:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Before I am attacked on item # 4 on my recent post to Vikki on "RVing
the future" and since I sense someone about to question me...
4. ...The cause/effect is totally backwards.
What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our
present consideration or/and activity.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/612)
22:25:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> I am afraid you are not well read on Edgar Cayce achievements..otherwise you
> wouldn't be saying this. Let's just say he had hits and misses. But had
enough
> hits to be consulted by the Presidents at the time and be of great value to
those
> who sought to resolve all kinds of personal problems which SOLVE their
> dilemma...regardless of whether he "went" into the past or future. Of course,
> there are some that "interpreted" his hits and misses...but heck, don't we do
> that when we analyze an RV session? The goods are only as good as the
Analysis.
>
> electrix
Yes, I made a rather extreme statement. He did have some hits as I
recall, I believe
mostly in dream interpretations and some personal readings. It was the
headline type
predictions that I recall missing or not yet happening.....atlantis
rising in 68 or 69
....the various catastrophes.....gee kinda reminds me of someone else
right now.
I read many of the books put out by ARE and found his stories about
Atlantis as fascinating
as the current RV stories about Mars....same for his re-incarnation
stuff.
Have you ever read his interpretations on the Book Of Revelations?
Maybe we should do this offline.
Rich
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/613)
22:25:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our
>present consideration or/and activity.
I think I understood what you had intended, Electrix...what confuses me..well
alot of things confuse me, but that's neither here nor there ;-) How do you
know that the Collective Unconscious is correct? If it is the collective
memories of all, then how is it not affected by each individual perception
that makes up it's whole? That you aren't getting an individuals perception
of what occurred/or will occur. I feel that perhaps I'm missing something
vital here, but am having trouble grasping it.
Siochain,
Vikki
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/614)
22:26:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
I don't KNOW that the Collective Unconscious is correct...I can only go by
observation of the effect. If we accurately tap into this future gestalt (I
don't want to use "memory" since this entail a time track) we can observe it
manifest. That's *proof* that we experienced the future by viewing. So.... I
know that much. I also know that if we observe the future it changes the
present
consideration or activity of the person that is viewing. Of course, that
doesn't
help none since the future will happen regardless (If you haven't seen the movie
12 Monkeys...I suggest you rent the video). The only way that it affects the
next person is if you convince him/her of your considerations. But you see,
that
was already embedded in the future otherwise, the future you viewed wouldn't
have
been accurate.
What happens if we view an inaccurate future...we can't tell since there is no
empirical observation to consider as proof. We can only guess. All we know and
can prove is that it DIDN'T happen. So that's that, a miss.
I believe your premise is that whatever is in the Collective Unconscious
automatically affects every person's subconscious. Maybe what you are trying to
resolve is that if affects everyone's *experience* if the target viewed is of
global consequence like the "spiritual enlightenment of the world." (I
purposely
used this example since I am tired of hearing about negative feedbacks and
predictions). That would mean that this unknown ether affects your and my mind.
But that's stretching it since we have to construct a very sophisticated system
to explain how that happens. It is much simpler to accept the empirical effect
(Occam's Razor) and go from there.
I hope this was clear...all in all, just don't delude yourself that you have the
power to change the future..that province only rest in God's hands. I am sorry,
but none of these military studs can tell me otherwise.
electrix
stargate : Message: [stargate]
To Rick - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/615)
22:26:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Rich Krankoski wrote:
> I read many of the books put out by ARE and found his stories about
> Atlantis as fascinating
> as the current RV stories about Mars....same for his re-incarnation
> stuff.
I have read quite a few myself...but mostly to look for applications.
So, some books I read through skimming certain subjects. Some i got
into pretty heavily...like the Antlantean society structure and the
origin of mankind.
> Have you ever read his interpretations on the Book Of Revelations?
No. Actually, I don't resonate too well with that story...that's stuff
turns me off. I just stick with the uplifting Books passages...like the
Prodigal Son, The Gospel according to St. Mathews... So no, that
wouldn't be something I would read.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
mars.. - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/616)
22:26:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Re: [stargate] mars..
May I ask...what period (era) of Mars was it? i.e how many years back?
electrix
Angela Thompson Smith wrote:
> Regarding the Mars thread, back in the spring I was tasked with a
> coordinate from a colleague on the internet. I did the session using CRV
> stages 1-3 and discovered the target to be a scene that resembled the
> Valley of Fire (AOL) in Nevada, high cliffs, dry, red, where water once
> cascaded down to a valley floor, consisting of mud pools and hot springs.
> The colleague informed me that the coordinate referred to "Mars in the
> past".
>
> Kind regards
> Angela Thompson Smith
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/617)
22:26:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Once again, time is not a continuum, it is a parallel phenomena. Nothing is
> cast in stone. It's a dynamic, changing environment that's constantly
> evolving. You can't put your finger on it - although sometimes you can get
> lucky. There reallly is no past, present or future - the only IS.
> ----
Lets try a different perspective. The un-formed aspect of the future has to do
with our free will. RVing the future, has a distinct lag in the presentation
of data, this lag or delay is produced by the Sub calculating the most likely
probability if the patterns of current behavior continue unchanged.
If for what ever reason, including someone viewing an event and not liking want
they see, they make new choices and change significant behavior (an option of
free will), and/or inspire others to make new choices, new probabilities
form. Viewing targets out more than 30 to 90 days require reassessment, for
shifts in variables which affect the outcome.
Also if you want to know if say, Y2K or the plant pathogen are going to wreck
havoc on the earth, you do not view the canister, or a computer, you view non
related but effected targets with a long history of consistency, to see if
there is any change or disruption.
For example, the boston Market has sold produce for 200 years, it has a very
strong and consistent signature of repetitive activity. If you targeted it on
a date.. say January 15, 2000, then you data would tell you what was happening
at the market. Doing a series of that kind of target will give you a much
clearer picture of the impact if any of the event you are seeking to
understand.
Viewing the future is not a one shot deal, it is a project which requires
carefully thought out development and analysis. I amazes me how people like to
turn everything into a magic pill. Worth while results are achieved through
discipline, consistency and careful analysis.
So those of you who want to take a week end class, or 10 day class, or one year
class and think you will break the lotto, and retire, and if you can't it
proves that RV does not work....LOL good luck.
If it was that easy the career pros would have done it already. My experience
is that people that think that way do not go the distance to where the valuable
data is found, once they find out that this is work.....LOL they are off
chasing something else shiney they think might be fun.
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/618)
22:27:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>future. Can RV determine such possibilities. Or is even this too much.
>
>Regards,
>
>
>Bill
Hi Bill,
J W Dunne thought that so-called precognitive dreams contain information
from your own future memory of an event that had actually happened.
(Getting the mind round *that* is bad enough:-) ) This however can
contain it's own problems, shown as follows....
In one example, he dreamed that there was to be a volcanic explosion on
an island, and *4,000* people would be killed (he was positive about
this number). He dreamed he was actually on the island, it was quite
dramatic, with him chasing around trying to warn people that 4,000 would
die if they didn't evacuate.
Some time later he read a newspaper article which told of a volcano
disaster in Martinique, which reported the probable loss of *40,000*
lives, however what is significant is that when reading the newspaper
article at the time, he had misread the figure as 4,000, and it was 15
yrs later, when he was copying out the paragraph, when he actually
realised that the figure reported by the paper was 40,000.
To cut a long story short, he came to the conclusion that his dream was
of the information in the newspaper....which he had misread to boot!
Basically he hadn't seen the actual event, only his memory of reading
the newspaper article.
If rv/precognitive dreams work the same way, then yes we are liable to
pick up all sorts of distortions, depending on when/how we sourced the
information. Presumably if Dunne had dreamed not of the first newspaper
article, but of the revised information 15 yrs later, then he would have
got the correct figure.
I personally think that RVing a target *is* RVing the
future......possibly you access your memory of actually seeing the
target when it is disclosed, (if it is a picture) with all the
distortions that run through your conscious mind at that time. Viewing a
future of which you personally cannot ever have experience of however
(ie. so far in the future you would be dead before it happened, or, say,
of a distant planet where you will never travel and see for yourself, or
of some secret establishment that you'll never visit but are only given
feedback by others at a later date), is even more vulnerable to
distortion; not only your own, but via others re their
feedback/opinions; which you may well have viewed.
If, however, you are lucky enough, or can direct yourself somehow to
viewing the *actual* outcome, from a reliable source, even if way into
the future, then, yes I think the future could be viewed.....but therein
lies the rub!
Sorry about this long post, but I think it's worth a thought.
--
Regards,
Glyn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/619)
22:27:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our
> present consideration or/and activity.
>
> electrix
Life is a learning experience, unless we decide we already know it all.
When we view the future, it is a bit like a conversation I had with my
son, he was patterning some behaviors I found disturbing, because I knew
where they would take him, but he did not. finally I realized how to get
him to see. I asked him... "When you get to be that persons age, is that
what you want your life to be like?" His instant answer was..." oh god
NO!!" then , I told him, do not do the things he does, because you already
have the proof of where that leads.
When we RV the future what ever we see becomes real to us, no more wishful
thinking or denial, we can consciously choose to make changes. Changes
effect the future (free will). RV can be a catalyst to get us to take
responsibility.. or action.. rather than continue on in our patterns, but
it is not magic, just a source of data. Real or imagined if we do not
like what we see, it can inspire us to take action, or we can just sit
around and feel helpless complaining. It is just a tool, we still have to
do the work :)
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/620)
22:27:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Jerome Pople wrote:
> Future info doesn't validate itself until the event actually occurs -
> that's the point. So making decisions based on unvalidated info is
> unrealistic and irresponsible.
Not if there is a track record... banks make decisions based on
historical financial patterns all the time.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/621)
22:27:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> No, I don't think. You will find out in the world of PSI that you may not
> accurately assess info in a controlled manner, even though you think you are.
> Sound convoluted and confusing? That's because it is. It's not a rational
> (in our sense of the word) experience "out there".
Why not? Why can't you accurately assess info in a controlled manner?
> The other person doesn't know details, you supply that. And the info gets
> compared with other viewers' data. That's how results get compiled in a
> global sense.
Seems limiting...
Trypper
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/622)
22:28:03
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
electrix wrote:
>
> I also know that if we observe the future it changes the present
> consideration or activity of the person that is viewing. Of course, >that
doesn't
> help none since the future will happen regardless (
That's not necessarily true... true for you personally perhaps... but
not for everyone.
>The only way that it affects the
> next person is if you convince him/her of your considerations.
That's definitely not true.
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/623)
22:28:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Before I am attacked on item # 4 on my recent post to Vikki on "RVing
> the future" and since I sense someone about to question me...
>
> 4. ...The cause/effect is totally backwards.
>
> What I mean is...if we observe the future accurately, it changes our
> present consideration or/and activity.
>
Not always... if you act on it perhaps it does.. if you merely sit back
and observe.. it doesn't. If you view an event that has nothing to do
with you personally.. your present consideration and/or activity has
nothing to do with the event.
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/624)
22:28:24
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>I hope this was clear...all in all, just don't delude yourself that you >have
the power to change the future..that province only rest in God's >hands. I am
sorry, but none of these military studs can tell me >otherwise.
Perhaps you are mistaken about this.
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/625)
22:28:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> There should
be some clues in the environment... don't you think? ... oh.. I get
it.. the coordinates thing.. you guys only see the specific thing you
coordinate on.. is that it? You don't 'see' the whole thing?
>>
Nope, you missed the point...regardless of what some of my learned colleques
will say...numbers and alphabet type things just do not translate well in the
altered state...this is why a viewer "communicating" with someone in Russia
has not problem with language..they are communicating on a different
plane...this is why (IMHO), you cannot do lotteries - because numbers get all
boggled around in the ether...THEREFORE...even if you had a roadmap, there is
no way for you to really know exactly where you are if you are simply viewing
a lottery...you could target Virginia Lottery...OK .. that might bring you a
little closer...but the Virginiia lotttery is twice a week...if you said
OK..Wednesdays lottery...hmmmm...Wednesday is a spelled name...alphabet...that
sort of thing...it is also a specific time....and since time and space no not
really exist in the altered state...welll...you get the
picture...confused...so am I and so are all of us who do RV...just trust in
the magic...forget trying to make a million at it..and just have fun...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/626)
22:28:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> the Akashic, Collective Unconscious or whatever...it is suppose to be
a timeless "environment." Meaning, it shouldn't be distorted by our human
persception of past, present or future. >>
Nope...no cupie doll on this one....the future is not set...and can be
changed...the old military unit once viewed an event in which the President
was involved...we each (separately and apart from each other - in totally
different rooms etc...) each saw the President being made a target of an
assassination attempt....a small passenger plane was flown into his podium and
exploded on contact...we eachsawa the same people, same events leading up to
the attempt,...etc...we gave it to the Secret Service...they extended the no
fly zone by an additional five miles...nothing happened...did we miss it?...We
saw it...they, the Secret Service, changed the fabric of the future based on
our data and moved the no fly zone...They believed in us actually...used us on
occasion...So you see the future is part of the continuum but it can be
changed...r
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/627)
22:28:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Nope, you missed the point...regardless of what some of my learned colleques
> will say...numbers and alphabet type things just do not translate well in the
> altered state...this is why a viewer "communicating" with someone in Russia
> has not problem with language..they are communicating on a different
> plane...
Yes... I agree.. but regarding the issue of knowing where and when you
are ... can't you just observe the ages of your children... the presence
of grandchildren.. etc? I mean.. pick up a newspaper, right?
>this is why (IMHO), you cannot do lotteries - because numbers get all
> boggled around in the ether...THEREFORE...even if you had a roadmap, there is
> no way for you to really know exactly where you are if you are simply viewing
> a lottery...
I'm not into lotteries.. I'm in the no/limited personal gain camp.
... but I still manage to have fun... :-)
Trypper
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/628)
22:29:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Jerome,
>How can the future IS (static) but yet be dynamic?
>
>I think we have a relativity issue here. Dynamic to whom?
>
>electrix
The future IS does not appear as a static phenomena. Time is not a line.
Okay, imagine a line stretching in front of and behind you. This is most
people's concept of time. It goes back into the past and forward into the
future.
Einstein postulated that time is not a single line, but many lines parallel
to each other. So, instead of going forward to see the future, you may in
fact be making a lateral motion. So your notion of relativity here is correct.
Future events are not fixed. They are dynamic and may change due to
unforseen circumstances. The future is not a static thing. It is constantly
changing due to actions we and others perform today.
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/629)
22:29:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Not if there is a track record... banks make decisions based on
>historical financial patterns all the time.
Yes, they do - and they lose a lot of money, too. If this were the pinnacle
of market analysis, Kondratief and Elliott waves would explain all market
behavior. Unhappily, they don't.
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/630)
22:29:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Why not? Why can't you accurately assess info in a controlled manner?
>Trypper
Sometimes you can...sometimes you can't. No one has the ability to
correctly assess everything all the time. That's whay we need monitors and
RV processes to keep us on the right track.
Lots of things happen when you are RVing. These things will effect your
interpretation unless you remain in the discipline of your method.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/631)
22:29:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Yes, they do - and they lose a lot of money, too. If this were the >pinnacle of
market analysis, Kondratief and Elliott waves would explain >all market
behavior. Unhappily, they don't.
>
I don't know about the pinnacle of market analysis... but I do know that
all of society is constructed by taking into consideration the past
performance of individuals in their chosen fields... certain individuals
consistently score points and win ball games... certain individuals
excel in all manner of activities that are consistent and are used to
evaluate their worth to society.
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/632)
22:29:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hello again,
Re-reading my mail started me thinking about all sorts of other
questions related to time and RVing, that on the surface couldn't be
explained by getting access to a future 'memory', eg. locating missing
persons.
If, say, a remote viewer had been asked to find a missing woman, and
this woman was subsequently found, dead, in precisely the spot where the
RVer had seen her body (in this imaginary case she'd accidentally fallen
into a river; noone knowing where she'd gone that day), and the RVer was
*totally* responsible for guiding the police to the body. What is at
work here?
1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of
his own, (although he would eventually have some obviously), as this
would be a paradox, ie. what he did in the past (the viewing) had
*determined* the future event (the finding).
2. Another explanation is of course that the RVer was viewing the woman
and/or her thoughts/emotions etc before she died, and these may well
have contained enough information to 'take' him there. Dunne could well
discuss this aspect later in the book; although that cannot be explained
in 'assessing your future memories' terms. However, the woman would
never have seen her dead body. No, I'm not getting into theories of life
after death or OBE, but only that some believe that some events, if
impressions are strong enough, can be'recorded' and stored somehow, and
can be accessed under the right conditions; possibly leading to
experiences of phantoms etc.
3. Was the RVer instead accessing his memories of reports from those
that actually saw the body retrieved, albeit after following his
instructions? Again this falls into the paradox trap as they wouldn't
have been there unless he'd carried out the viewing in the first place.
Perhaps the viewing took place not forward in time, or backward, but
*across* parallel time-lines (?) Now I'm really clutching at straws.
4. The above may fit somewhere into Dunne's Serial Time theory, but I'm
still only part-way into the book, and I know it gets hard-going because
I read it once years ago, and could never understand it
*then*......perhaps this time :-)
I'll post if I find something. Sorry if the above thoughts are a bit
jumbled, and my thoughts confused, but it's hard to explain. Just
contributing thoughts really.
Has anyone else here read Dunne's theory? Any comments? The book I'm re-
reading is called 'An Experiment With Time'. Alas, I believe it is out
of print. (I'll let someone else have bandwidth now :-) )
--
Regards,
Glyn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/633)
22:29:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
That's true, Trypper - but how does it relate to RVing the future?
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/634)
22:29:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> I mean.. pick up a newspaper, right?
>>
and do what with it...like I said...numbers and alphabets do not work very
well in the altered state...so if alphabets and numbers do not work well, what
is it you would expect to obtain from a newspaper...and never forget, that
RV'ing a site is not a like a liesurely walk through the park..on the
contrary, it is much like screaming down Madison Avenue is a fighter
jet...Mach 2+ and trying to recall everything you saw...
regards...Gene..
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/635)
22:30:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> That's true, Trypper - but how does it relate to RVing the future?
>
There are a few people who can rv the future in a consistent and
accurate manner, I guess...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/636)
22:30:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi all; Liam here
Welcome to the wonderful world of intelligence and RV Let me give you a
hypothetical (See Gene, I know some big words also). Three
professional viewers view President Regan being killed while lighting the
National Christmas Tree. That information is passed to the Secret Service.
The president lights the Christmas tree from inside the White House that
year. He is not killed. Has RN just lost or gained credibility. Were
you wrong or right? Those are rhetorical questions. The bottom line is you
know. You only know if you wait until after the president is shot and then
tell everyone "hey I knew that was going to happen.
slainte
May the force be with you
Liam
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/637)
22:30:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> and do what with it...like I said...numbers and alphabets do not work very
> well in the altered state...so if alphabets and numbers do not work well,
Why do you have to do it in an altered state? Why can't you just do it
in a normal waking state? Did you ever try it?
>what
> is it you would expect to obtain from a newspaper...and never forget, that
> RV'ing a site is not a like a liesurely walk through the park..on the
> contrary, it is much like screaming down Madison Avenue is a fighter
> jet...Mach 2+ and trying to recall everything you saw...
Don't the important things just jump out at you? Don't you "remember"
them?
Just "know" ... ?
Sorry for all the questions...
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/638)
22:30:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of
> his own, ...snip
Hi Glyn,
It may seem nit pickey, but first you have to look at the words you are
using to describe the phenomena.
"Memory" by definition relates to an event which has already occured, and is
recorded in the matrix as an event.
When you RV the Future, you are not viewing recorded events, or memory. Your
Sub, has to calculate probability give factors already in motion. Which in
your hypothetical case may include, your womans love of walking along the
river bank at sunset, stopping to watch the sun go down, coupled with the
stresses and weakness of the river bank its self , her preferred stopping
places, and body weight.... bingo.. you have a calculated probability. Now
if she does not go, or by some intuition stops three feet to the left, or or
or.. any of the factors used in the equasion change, the actual future will
be different.
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/639)
22:30:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of
> his own, (although he would eventually have some obviously), as this
> would be a paradox, ie. what he did in the past (the viewing) had
> *determined* the future event (the finding).
Why couldn't he be accessing a future memory of his own... or of reality
itself?
Oh... you're still in cause and effect, right? What happens to cause
and effect in the event horizon of a black hole?
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/640)
22:31:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Liam wrote:
Has RN just lost or gained credibility. Were
> you wrong or right? Those are rhetorical questions. The bottom line is you
> know. You only know if you wait until after the president is shot and then
> tell everyone "hey I knew that was going to happen.
Ok Liam... now you're at the meat of the issue.. What really matters
here? Is it the credibility of rv? Well if you are sell it .. writing
books and giving classes and collecting grants and building a career and
reputation on it then yes.. that what matters.
But if you are just a player in the game.. an observer and occasionally
a bit more.. then what matters?
...You try to do the right things by yourself, I guess... what else can
you do?
... and nobody knows..
Trypper
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/641)
22:31:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> > well in the altered state...so if alphabets and numbers do not work well,
Why do you have to do it in an altered state? Why can't you just do it
in a normal waking state? Did you ever try it? >>
Do what in a "waking state"?...What is you are talking about here....I am
talking about RV (Remote Viewing...)..this is not something you do while
having lunch with friends....it is not something you do while watching TV..it
takes discipline, training (either by yourself or from a qualified trainer)
and it takes certain protocols...You are trying to trivilize a phenomena which
many of us have spent years trying to learn and use...For my part...I think I
will move to the dark corner lurk on this issue for a while...head is getting
a little sore from beating it against wall....
Gene..
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/642)
22:31:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> But if you are just a player in the game.. an observer and occasionally
a bit more.. then what matters?
...You try to do the right things by yourself, I guess... what else can
you do?
... and nobody knows..
Trypper >>
What exactly are you trying to push on us here Trypper?...Neither Liam nor
myself charge for teaching RV...but we have a thing which may not be in vogue
lately called personal honor and pride...Simply because you do not get paid
for doing something does not mean that you cannot do it the very best you know
how...ask any Medal of Honor winner if they were trained to do the
extraordinary things they did (if they lived through it)...NOPE...but that is
why it is called a Medal of Honor...RV is not on line here...If every
scientist and fraud currently looking into RV suddenly came up with proof that
it does not work, I assure you both Liam and myself would not skip a beat...we
would continue to work with our students and continue to train them to use the
magic...I do not do what I do for personal accolades...in case you did not
know it..I don't even use my true name on the net...try calling Gene Kincaid
in DC and see who you get...it will not be me....Liam - perhaps the closest
friend I have in the world is not even in the US...he continues to serve the
government honorably and does not use his true name either...It is not glory
which drives us Trypper...it is a little thing called truth and all the
naysayers in the world cannot take that goal away from us....
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
mars.. - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/643)
22:31:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
I was not given that feedback. All I was told as feedback was that I RVed
"Mars in the past."
Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
The Inner Vision Research Institute
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/644)
22:31:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> saw it...they, the Secret Service, changed the fabric of the future based on
> our data and moved the no fly zone...They believed in us actually...used us on
> occasion...So you see the future is part of the continuum but it can be
> changed...r
Okay...I concede that it was not a miss (that was an evaluation). BUT, all you
can prove is that it DIDN'T happen. NOT that you changed the fabric of the
future.
You cannot prove that.
As far as I am concern, the future ENTAILED the RV team viewing the situation
and
advicing the Secret Service and so forth... THAT was the future outcome. In
other
words, don't start from point 0 and end at point 1 when there is the number line
-1,-2, 0, 1, 2 to contend with, the past,present,future event being the number
line.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/645)
22:32:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> What exactly are you trying to push on us here Trypper?.
I'm not a pusher... I'm a player. :-)
>If every scientist and fraud currently looking into RV suddenly came up with
>proof that it does not work, I assure you both Liam and myself would not skip a
>beat...
You trust your own experiences over someone else's, huh? :-) That must
mean you trust your own judgement too.
At least you have enough common sense not to use your real name... that
makes you smarter than me.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/646)
22:32:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>-1,-2, 0, 1, 2 to contend with, the past,present,future event being the
number
>line.
>
Hi Electrix. We did not change the future. You cannot change something
that has not happened yet. We may have altered the future. Unless you are a
follower of John Calvin, we all change the future a hundred times a day by
little choices we make. Should I go to work, or stay home. What eve choice
I make, my future will be different. When Custer decided to spilt his
command into three parts and ride down into the valley with 221 men to
attack 3000 native Americans, he altered his future. He was not locked into
that future. He had free will.Unless you believe in predestination.
slainte
May the force be with you
Liam
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/647)
22:32:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Yaana Allen wrote:
> When we RV the future what ever we see becomes real to us, no more wishful
> thinking or denial, we can consciously choose to make changes. Changes
> effect the future (free will). RV can be a catalyst to get us to take
> responsibility.. or action.. rather than continue on in our patterns, but
> it is not magic, just a source of data. Real or imagined if we do not
> like what we see, it can inspire us to take action, or we can just sit
> around and feel helpless complaining. It is just a tool, we still have to
> do the work :)
Perhaps what we need to emphasize in the discussion is the future that affects
one individual and the future that affect an entire (the whole) wordly system.
First, I must say that we have all the free will to do anything at any time.
That's provable. But because I have free will doesn't mean that the future is
DEPENDENT on my free will. Otherwise, anything free will activity I set out
to do to change the future would mean that the outcome will always be as I set
out to do with my free will. Since we can prove that free will activity
changes the future. Thus, it remains an unknown.
Second, if everyone has a free will and imposes activity on the world, that
would mean we have a future that's chaotic if the free will of everyone was to
take effect. This would mean we can't possibly observe the future accurately
since everything keeps shifting.
To conclude, yes...we live in as individual in free will world...but the
future has been set. Why? because It has already played out itself...it is
just that we as human beings are experiencing it in the now! The future
already happen in the ether!. We are just tourist getting the best of a ring
side seat.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/648)
22:33:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> 1. Surely the RVer could not have been accessing any future memory of
>> his own, ...snip
>
>Hi Glyn,
Hello Yaana,
>
>It may seem nit pickey, but first you have to look at the words you are
>using to describe the phenomena.
>
>"Memory" by definition relates to an event which has already occured, and is
>recorded in the matrix as an event.
Absolutely. I was mulling over something I'd said in my previous post
about Dunne's precognitive dream. The memory Dunne spoke about would
have been a 'true' memory (at time c) of a past event (at time b) which
he think he accessed (in a somewhat distorted form) before either of
these (time a).
Sorry if I didn't/don't come over clearly, I'm doing my best to even
understand the concept, let alone being able to put my thoughts on it
into words, in a way that makes any sense at all to others :-)
--
Regards,
Glyn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/649)
22:33:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Why couldn't he be accessing a future memory of his own... or of reality
>itself?
>
>Oh... you're still in cause and effect, right? What happens to cause
>and effect in the event horizon of a black hole?
Hello Trypper,
I didn't say that the future cannot affect the past. Some think it can.
I hadn't got that far, and I was only 'ticking' one particular thought
off as not sitting properly with Dunne's idea; mentioned in my previous
post.
I don't know a lot about black holes I'm afraid, or even if they've been
found to exist. My limited understanding (which may be incorrect) is
that there may be collapsed star of great mass, although perhaps tiny in
size, at the centre, and that this exerts such an enormous gravitational
pull that it stops its own emissions, including light, from escaping its
grip. I would be interested in learning more, especially any
implications re distortions of time.
--
Regards,
Glyn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/650)
22:33:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> I make, my future will be different. When Custer decided to spilt his
> command into three parts and ride down into the valley with 221 men to
> attack 3000 native Americans, he altered his future. He was not locked into
> that future. He had free will.Unless you believe in predestination.
>
I knew the C word was coming...Calvinism.
I am not saying that we are locked in the future. Although, I do believe there
is some synergistic shifts going on in creating a future that has already played
itself out. All I am saying is that the future already played out itself and we
humans are just observing and experiencing the phenomena. Whenever we wish to
access the Meta Reality it is there to "see".
Think of a roll of movie film projecting our lives. The film is there. We
could look at it in the past, frame 1. In the present, frame 2, and in the
future, frame3. In the meantime, we are just going through the motions of
getting our popcorn (free will) out in the lobby, only to comeback and watch the
film anytime our heart desires by RVing frame 1 , 2 or 3.
I already mentioned my empirical proof to the future. i.e. stuff that cannot be
denied...
1. If we are RV the future accurately and indeed it manifest, *that* is an
empirical truth that the future exist.
2. That once we view the future we can affect the present. We can change our
thinking or activity to accommodate any condition which we want to avoid or
permit. That's easily provable since we can see our behavior change because of
the future data we are reacting to.
3. We can prove that observation of a future event DIDN'T or DID happen by its
manifestation. Regardless of whether we RV'ed it accurately or inaccurately.
4.To change the fabric of the future by RVing is not provable. Otherwise, RV
would be the Cause and the future the effect. Totally illogical.
5. My big logical leap...we are synergistically creating a future that has
already played out itself, otherwise, we couldn't possibly RV it accurately. Not
proof...but an hypothesis.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/651)
22:33:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>I believe your premise is that whatever is in the Collective Unconscious
>automatically affects every person's subconscious.
No...I think I was just asking if the collective unconscious would contain
everyone's perceptions..ummm..or AOL's as well as valid information and how
would one tell the difference if that were true. I could see if several
people of different personality types/beliefs viewed the same thing that
would pretty much validate it, but what of the person on their own or those
that share a common belief? I suppose to state it very basically, is there
some sort of cosmic cruft sifter that comes into play so you (not you
personally, but a general you) would know what you have viewed is a true
future and not a future as perceived by someone else. Is that confusing?
I'm sorry if I'm being incredibly dense.
>I hope this was clear...all in all, just don't delude yourself that you
>have the power to change the future..
But, I do think we have the ability to change the future, not just by those
who can remote view, but by the things we do on a day to day basis. The
people we meet, how we interact with those people..I think that all comes
into play and not only affects their future but our own. Otherwise...if
it's all predestined, why even get out of bed in the morning?
Siochain,
Vikki
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/652)
22:33:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>But, I do think we have the ability to change the future, not just by those
> who can remote view, but by the things we do on a day to day basis. The
> people we meet, how we interact with those people..I think that all comes
> into play and not only affects their future but our own. Otherwise...if
> it's all predestined, why even get out of bed in the morning?
Predestined? No. But then how can you explain that we can RV the future
accurately, if there was no future there already? And if indeed the future is
unfolding as we go about our business, how come we don't RV the future
dynamically and fuzzy? This would mean these RV studs are tapping in to
imagination...and as you can tell.. they are adamant in protecting their belief
system as to state that they CAN see the future. If the future wasn't there my
friend, they couldn't possibly see it!
electrix
stargate : Message: [stargate]
The Question of Trust - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/653)
22:34:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
[stargate] The Question of Trust
Lyn et al,
Thank you Lyn, for such a comprehensive reply to my CRV v.ERV q. May I take
another component of it, and expand the discussion a little.
Lyn said about Gene....>He's one of only three people I would
>now trust to monitor me in an ERV session.)
The question of trust seems to come up a lot.
I envy you having someone you can trust.
I cannot remember the last time I trusted anyone.
Why are Gene, Liam, Skip to be trusted (in an rv sense of course. )
Why is the issue of trust so important.
With what do you entrust them.
Why would you not trust others.
Is it an issue in CRV too.
Who would care to expand on the issue of monitor trust.
.
In Friendship and Light. MaryD
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/654)
22:34:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
electrix, I would like to look at point 4 of your hypothesis.
> 4.To change the fabric of the future by RVing is not provable. Otherwise, RV
> would be the Cause and the future the effect. Totally illogical.
IF: time as we perceive it here only exists under certain conditions
[the conditions of this 3rd dimension reality, for example]
THAN: "logic' as we know and define it in this 3-D time/space framework
only applies to [only works in] this 3-D linear sequence
time/space/place.
IE:
3-D time/space Cause and Effect Logic can only exist in a linear
sequence time/space/place.
...and that would probably make all the other points in the hypothesis
irrelavent'.
So the logic and the hypothese may be totally correct, but only in this
dimension! ...and this is only a small part of the energy pattern grid
or matrix [or what ever we would call it] that I am aware of.
I am not a trained RVer; and yet I follow this list with great interest
because I sometimes 'go' outside of this time/space and I want to
understand this 'traveling' better. I can't prove I go anywhere, but
that is irrelavent to me because 'traveling' is a part of MY reality --
and what really is the world we live in but our perceptions of it?
...and at least it feels great to be able to talk about it...
Joyce
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/655)
22:34:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> No...I think I was just asking if the collective unconscious would contain
> everyone's perceptions..ummm..or AOL's as well as valid information and how
> would one tell the difference if that were true. I could see if several
> people of different personality types/beliefs viewed the same thing that
> would pretty much validate it, but what of the person on their own or those
> that share a common belief? I suppose to state it very basically, is there
> some sort of cosmic cruft sifter that comes into play so you (not you
> personally, but a general you) would know what you have viewed is a true
> future and not a future as perceived by someone else. Is that confusing?
> I'm sorry if I'm being incredibly dense.
I had to read this several times to get the jist...
There are two modes we can approach this with...as an individual or as a whole.
Ever seen a school of fish how they behave...they are individual fish but is
like...they are operating like if there is a big brain or mind in the school
itself. Some fishes in the group will turn slightly slower than the others.
But for the most part, they all turn around and move uniformly. Each one viewed
the future movement differently, especially the one's that turned slowly. Yet,
the school KNEW the future movement as well as the individual fish.
What I am saying is that there is only ONE movement. But each fish interprets
it (reacts) differently, but yet KNOW the movement is going to take place. So
there is a synergy going on. Each individual fish is aware. If it ain't it
wouldn't be in the school of fish for too long.
So there is a Grand future and individual's future weaved into it. And like the
school of fish...we perceive the flow.
I hope that answers your question.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/656)
22:34:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
First off, the 4th point is a FACT...not an hypothesis. RVing can exist not,
but
yet the fabric future would exist. Therefore, RV is NOT the cause of creating a
fabric of the future. If we take out RV all together out of the picture, a
future
will still be there. Unless someone can prove this....it is presently
unprovable.
Second, you are introducing a different category into the picture i.e. 4th,
5th..6th...dimension..., I do not speak of these because they are not defined.
They are conceptual. There is nothing to grasp...has no concreteness, not
emperically provable. As far as we know...logic can be used in these
dimensions...how do we know?
So the introduction of an arbitrary dimension, cannot deny my fact in the 3D
dimension. Cannot mix apples and oranges here hon.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -Y2K - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/657)
22:35:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Dear Gene,
I'm not hasseling you here, just want to know. It appears you are
predicting world economic collapse after Y2K hits. Was that just a
hypothetical case or do you mean that.
Seriously curious,
Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/658)
22:35:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
electrix
It is so hard to put inside seeing stuff into words... [sigh]
..
> Second, you are introducing a different category into the picture i.e. 4th,
> 5th..6th...dimension..., I do not speak of these because they are not defined.
> They are conceptual. There is nothing to grasp...has no concreteness, not
> emperically provable. As far as we know...logic can be used in these
> dimensions...how do we know?
>
> So the introduction of an arbitrary dimension, cannot deny my fact in the 3D
> dimension. Cannot mix apples and oranges here hon.
OK. I don't have an argument with that...
So -- Yes, BUT...
it appears to be the 'arbitraty dimensions' that I 'travel' in!
So it's this arbitrary dimension stuff that I have to deal with to get
any results -- I no longer care about proving if any of this exists: I
just want to understand how to do it better, with more consistancy --
From a certain perspective it becomes kind of like past, present, and
future are ocurring simultaneously, and I can tune into whichever, but
its all fluid.
Try again here: There are two types of internal movements that 'get me
there' one is like 'sideways paralell' and the other like 'straight up'
a tunnel. Straight up locks into * simultaneous * fluid 'time'; sideways
accesses memory, can be past or future memory, but it is not 'alive' it
is more like observing static pictures; like reading records [seeing,
hearing, sensing records].
And I am not 'trained' so can only do this sometimes...
It is kinda like a dance: You know how you can be moving with the music,
and it is like your feet are just following the music and the rest of
you is just following your feet, and the dance feels like grace and joy,
and then you try to let your mind figure out what your feet are doing
and you stumble and lose the beat?
Well it's kinda like that sometimes -- suddenly I am suddenly back
'here' again, dazed..
Can any of this make any sense to anyone here?
I have so much trouble with language that I am gonna just observe and be
quite now..
Joyce
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/659)
22:35:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Dear Michael,
I was surprised to hear that theta is associated with ADD. Certainly
people with ADD are prone to self destructive behaviour, this is
supposed to result from loss of suppressive neurons that control
negative behaviour. Therefore, it seems a tenable hypothesis that
artifically inducing theta wave states, may reduce the effectiveness of
the same suppressive nerons, rendering a person vulnerable to negative
behaviour..To keep the argument focused I will not propose the correlary
that this same state ( depressed neural suppression) may render a person
vulnerable to some form of negative telepathic suggestion.
Regards,
Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/660)
22:35:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Thanks for putting out this question electrix and Vicki.
One other alternative to changing the future is moving your individual
conciousness to the parallel universe ( one of an infintie number) that
contains the desired result. The parallel universe model of quantum
mechanics fulfills all of the mathmatical rigor of quantum predictions
in the lab. ..Although not the most popular "model" of quantum mechanics
it remains a strong candidate and it mandates and infinte number of
parallel universes and suggests that ones conciousness may track from
one universe to another. In this case "seeing" the future successfully
would involve dragging your conciousness to the appropriate time line
where it can be fulfilled.. Any thoughts?
Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/661)
22:36:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>>
At least you have enough common sense not to use your real name... that
makes you smarter than me. >>
Not smarter..just wiser...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/662)
22:36:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>>
I hope that answers your question.
electrix
>>
Hi...just one of the "studs" here...I am always glad when I meet someone who
has all the answers...
gene..
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future -Y2K - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/663)
22:36:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> Dear Gene,
I'm not hasseling you here, just want to know. It appears you are
predicting world economic collapse after Y2K hits. Was that just a
hypothetical case or do you mean that.
Seriously curious,
Bill >>
It was nothing more than another of my sardonic and sarcastic replies...I for
one, do not believe the wunderkind of Bill Gates et. al. is going to bring
down the world on 1 Jan 2000. It concede I may not want to make deposits into
an ATM on New Years Eve...but then again, I do not buy cars assembled on
Monday either...a week, maybe a month or two or minor irritations and screwups
will occur...people will get zeros added into the Social Security
checks...people will be charged $4M for local telephone calls...but I doubt
empires will crumble because of it...lots of people still own things called
pens and paper and we all manage to survive the irritation...
Gene..
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/664)
22:37:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>In a recent documentary called The Dream Files, it was noted that there
>are several stages a night a person goes though in accessing theta state
>(since it must seek Delta to be in REM state). The first stage is
>usually of the theta encounter the person goes through disturbing
>experiences during sleep, only to mellow out during the night (in fact,
>every 90 minutes or so we are cycling through the state levels through
>out the day).
Theta is present is some areas of the brain during light sleep. This is
not a disturbing experience 99.9% of the time. The brain does not seek
delta to be in REM, as you have described above. In fact there is no delta
present during REM.
Again, theta is simply an indicator that an area of the brain is relatively
inactive. As the brain processes events of the day, different areas are
turned on and off frequently. Theta doesn't make you any more vulnerable
psychologically than resting your physical muscles makes your more
vulnerable to physical attack.
We often train or induce theta activity in certain areas of the brain for
therapeutic purposes. Anxiety control can be taught by teaching theta
increases in certain regions. Traumatic memories can be surfaced
(sometimes) by increasing theta at O1-O2. To say this makes the person
more vulnerable is an odd way to look at it. The person is vulnerable
because of the trauma, not because of the method which reveals it.
The Monroe Institute programs are effective mostly because they teach theta
production, thereby allowing direct access to mental mechanisms that are
normally inhibited by other brain functions. TMI considers this a method
for growth rather than for increasing vulnerability. If there were serious
side-effects of theta training, it would be evident in their thousands of
students.
I have seen many, many individuals taught to increase theta and I have seen
*no* evidence of long term harm. The only problem I have ever seen is
temporary (less that 2 minute) disorientation to immediate surroundings
because the analytical mechanisms that usually deal with the outside world
have been shut down. This is no different than the re-orientation period
required when waking up from sleep.
Best regards,
Michael
R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D.
Corporate and Clinical Psychologist
42 Lenox Pointe
Atlanta, GA 30324
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/665)
22:37:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>negative behaviour. Therefore, it seems a tenable hypothesis that
>artifically inducing theta wave states, may reduce the effectiveness of
>the same suppressive nerons, rendering a person vulnerable to negative
>behaviour.
Bill,
There is no evidence that training conscious control of theta harms the
neurons. In fact, learning to turn theta on an off actually strengthens
self-control, just as exercising a muscle by repeated tensing and relaxing
strengths the muscle. There is a very effective neurofeedback technique
used to train elite athletes which involves leaning to turn theta on and
off at will. The protocol has been used to increase performance of a
number of Olympic athletes.
Best regards,
Michael
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/666)
22:37:45
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Yes, Bill, I agree with that. That is why it's so diffcult to RV the future.
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/667)
22:37:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
electrix wrote:
> Perhaps what we need to emphasize in the discussion is the future that affects
> one individual and the future that affect an entire (the whole) wordly system.
How many times in history has "one" person made a difference. From the public
heroes, to the local heroes, or people who just quietly plod along doing what
they
believe to be right.. or wrong for that matter. The collective future is made
up
of the actions of individuals. At any time the child steps forward and
says..."hey, look at the naked man".. I mean the Emperor has not clothes.. the
heard thinking of the masses can shift dramatically.
> First, I must say that we have all the free will to do anything at any time.
> That's provable. But because I have free will doesn't mean that the future is
> DEPENDENT on my free will. Otherwise, anything free will activity I set out
> to do to change the future would mean that the outcome will always be as I set
> out to do with my free will. Since we can prove that free will activity
> changes the future. Thus, it remains an unknown.
Excuse me, there is a hole in this one big enough to drive a truck through. the
issue here seems to be, I want to have control over my life, but I don't want to
be responsible. With my free will I choose my actions, reactions and non
actions. Those effect others. We are social animals, we need community and
acceptance. If I am powerful enough to enroll hundreds, thousands, millions of
people to agree with me I can change the course of history, remember a guy named
Hitler.
Saying I have free will, and I can prove it, but that the future is not
dependent
on me, is an abdication of responsibility, not proof that we are predestined.
This group likes to refer to works of fiction to validate positions, try Richard
Bach, he says that all the possible futures have been created and by your
exercise
of free will, we get to choose which one you play in.
> Second, if everyone has a free will and imposes activity on the world, that
> would mean we have a future that's chaotic if the free will of everyone was to
> take effect. This would mean we can't possibly observe the future accurately
> since everything keeps shifting.
Free will is not the exercise of fantasy or wishful thinking, it is action. If
you put into action the activities required to inspire others and lead them, you
would make a difference. If however you are an arm chair quarterback your
affect
will go unnoticed. Most people are more comfortable criticizing the works of
others than putting their butt on the line to make a difference, those folks are
not the ones who change the world, they are the ones who allow the current state
to exist.
> To conclude, yes...we live in as individual in free will world...but the
> future has been set. Why? because It has already played out itself...it is
> just that we as human beings are experiencing it in the now! The future
> already happen in the ether!. We are just tourist getting the best of a ring
> side seat.
>
I have done regression therapy for nearly 20 years. There is a place where I
take
clients some times, in between lives where they see their purpose for
incarnating. In this place, repeatedly what was created was possibilities, like
a
series of " if then..goto " statements. We pick all the players, and their
potential, and the purpose for playing the game, along with the choice to have
amnesia about it. The future is not set, it is created by way we invest our
life,
every second, every thought we are cementing probabilities, through our
thoughts,
beliefs, and actions. They are not set, we create them. Until each of us
understand that we are ultimately responsible for our own lives and that victim
is
only a concept we create to avoid responsibility for what we can do, we will
continue as limited beings.
It is not whether you can make a difference, you DO make a difference with every
breath you take, the only question is.. what difference are you making?
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/668)
22:38:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Theta is present is some areas of the brain during light sleep. This is
> not a disturbing experience 99.9% of the time. The brain does not seek
> delta to be in REM, as you have described above. In fact there is no delta
> present during REM.
Then perhaps I need to quote you the source of the information:Rosalind
Catwright, psychoanalyst, Dream Researcher...
I will tell you what exact episode of The Dream File documentary next time. I
may even write a short transcript for you. But then again it would be one
psychologist word against another. But I would opt for the specialist.
> Again, theta is simply an indicator that an area of the brain is relatively
> inactive. As the brain processes events of the day, different areas are
> turned on and off frequently. Theta doesn't make you any more vulnerable
> psychologically than resting your physical muscles makes your more
> vulnerable to physical attack.
Theta by itself does nothing. The STATE of being in Theta is an open
receptivity.
> We often train or induce theta activity in certain areas of the brain for
> therapeutic purposes. Anxiety control can be taught by teaching theta
> increases in certain regions. Traumatic memories can be surfaced
> (sometimes) by increasing theta at O1-O2. To say this makes the person
> more vulnerable is an odd way to look at it. The person is vulnerable
> because of the trauma, not because of the method which reveals it.
My point is that this state POTENTIALLY has, as you said "traumatic memory
[experience]." The abrupt surface, thru artificial or active stimulation, can
affect health. Do you agree or disagree? Yes or No, please.
> The Monroe Institute programs are effective mostly because they teach theta
> production, thereby allowing direct access to mental mechanisms that are
> normally inhibited by other brain functions. TMI considers this a method
> for growth rather than for increasing vulnerability. If there were serious
> side-effects of theta training, it would be evident in their thousands of
> students.
First off, I have mentioned before that our consciousness seeks to avoid the
"traumatic area" at all cost. Sometimes, however, it fails if one is
experimenting or abusing biofeedback. Then, one has to seek a competent
psychologist to handle the damage. Second, Monroe's brainwave signals are made
up of several mix of brainwave level activities. The signals are not made up
SOLELY of Theta signal. Three, The signal themselves have a WIDE spectrum to
cover between the signals. Fourth, one sample of who knows how many, but I
recently had a friend listening to a Metamusic tape when affected is immune
system. It stirred up a cold and sinusitis. So yes not "thousands". However, I
am not targeting TMI in this regard since I believe they are one of the better
research institutions. I shall endeavor to provide some passages from Anna
Wise regarding this same topic next time.
> I have seen many, many individuals taught to increase theta and I have seen
> *no* evidence of long term harm. The only problem I have ever seen is
> temporary (less that 2 minute) disorientation to immediate surroundings
> because the analytical mechanisms that usually deal with the outside world
> have been shut down. This is no different than the re-orientation period
> required when waking up from sleep.
Can I ask, what studies did you get the above information?
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/669)
22:38:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> Hi...just one of the "studs" here...I am always glad when I meet someone who
> has all the answers...
Sorry if I offended you dude...I just happen to be a well read individual. It
just also happens that I am also researching the areas I am so vocal about.
But if you have more concrete answers...Proof... If your epistemology is
better..please share it. I am willing to change my mind. So far you have not
syllogistically refuted my claims or have provided your proof of why you believe
in your "future" hypothesis.
I am all ears (actually sight)...I am also here to learn, believe it or not!
electrix
stargate : Message: [stargate]
No More Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/670)
22:38:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
I will no longer elaborate on this Future topic... apparently, there is
a miscommunication occurring that we do not wish to clarify, even though
I believe I have made every effort to explain my side by analogies,
example, empirical observation, and plain english.
I will go back to my lurk state.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future Yaana - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/671)
22:38:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Excuse me...my fault. I fell into the an argumentative trap I always look to
avoid....but I ovelooked it.
Free will is a CONCEPT. If I intend to make a premise on this subject....it
will have
to be defined and agreed by both of us. Otherwise, we would be discussing the
concept
totally out of sync and the discussion will go nowhere. I would rather keep a
CONCRETE argument if we do not define conceptual parameters.
I would explain my position to you...but as I can see, you have taken my Free
Will
concept totally out of the context than what I intended.
By the way trying doing pro-gression for a change. 20 years of regression can
certainly be a drag. And maybe you would learn something about the Future of
your
patients.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future/ Is's or Isn't's - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/672)
22:39:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
electrix:
Hello.
imho yes, the future is 'there'. Einstein described it as a field, not a
railroad track leading from here to there.
It is certainy possible to RV the 'future' at least from the point at which
you do your viewing. Naturally there may be some changes in some things,
especially if humans are involved. lol
My own experience in this has been that this can best be shown by viewing
future events in the Market, as this is the best of all proof. You only have
to open the Wall St. Journal to see the results. If someone is interested in
this usage, will be glad to provide information and data on past
experimentation..
One of the experiments is on P. 201 in Dr. Radin's 'The Conscious Universe'.
It was a simple concept, the experiment lasted over a year's time. Another
experiment which you may have heard about on the 5/26 and 6/8 Sightings on the
Radio Show involved consistent results over a nine-year period. (1989-1998)
Records on this were NOT kept by us but by a non-involved individual in New
York, Henri Boll, of the Newsletter 'Financial Foresight'.
Simply stated, yes, you can learn to do this. It is a learnable skill. No
one will ever be 100% perfect. Who is?
( imho lotteries are in a different category. There are too many complexities
in WHICH lottery on WHICH date in WHICH State, and in many States there are
several (as many as 5 lotteries) on any one date)
As to the hypothetical 'missing woman' this is the type of thing that the Psi
Squad has done since 1971, and can certainly be done. I am not talking about
generalities like 'near water' or 'near trees' but specifics. Specifics
would include even small details that occur in a crimescene. small as a coffee
cup that should not have been there on a kitchen table; a red thread on a
window screen that led to solving a double homicide; a murderer'sleft eye that
was injured in a childhood accident; or a toilet seat that was in the 'up'
position although in a single woman's apartment. In one Montana case, the
missing woman was viewed as having had a sudden heart attack high up on a
mountain; and when found, 7 years later, was exactly as stated. In another, a
missing private airplane (white) in Alaska had skidded into the icy edge of a
frozen lake, one wing sticking up. Because the lake was viewed here as
shaped like an 'arrowhead' pointing N/NE, it was identified by the C.A.P. and
searched at a very low altitude. The wing was then visible, just as seen.
Not all is yet known about 'time' certainly, and I have included a section of
thinking and quotes from various persons in and out of the remote viewing
world (including Lyn Buchanan) in an Appendix to my upcoming book, which will
be out Aug. 16. (The Psychic Paradigm,Berkley Putnam) No two people will
agree entirely upon any explanation of what 'time' is or how it works; but the
great majority of experimentation with Rving into the past or the future, at
least that which we ourselves have been associated with in the past thirty-
five years, , shows that you need not be an expert on time or timelines in
order to do probative work with it. Let the experts finalize the matter; no
need to get all bound up with wondering whether or if remote viewing will or
will not change an outcome of a situation. Perhaps it does in some cases, not
in others. Probably, we will never be completely certain one way or another.
BTW Has anyone heard how Joe is doing?
Bevy Jaegers
U.S.Psi Squad
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
No More Future/New Topic? - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/673)
22:39:11
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi there :-),
How about a new topic?
I learn RV and have problems with Stage 3 - Sketching.
Anytime I attempt to sketch the visual impact gets overwhelming and I know I get
into an AOL drive. I always have to declare my sketch "AOL sketch". I wonder how
other RV students and experts handle the Stage 3. I would appreciate your
comments.
Throughout the other stages of RV I can usually just go by feelings and plainly
know about what's going on. Sometimes I cheat , I go in a kind of ERV stage
and see the information, but then I know it's not AOL and put the information
received into the A/s column.
Hope you all have a great day,
Monika
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future / /'Psychic Seeing?' - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/674)
22:39:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
The literal meaning of 'clairvoyance' is french for 'clear seeing'. This is
an old and outdated term that still hangs around like the smell of cabbage
boiling.
I have no idea what 'psychic seeing' would be, nor how it would (or could)
be separated from 'clairvoyance' or remote viewing or precognition,
retrocognition, et al.
The learnable ability to take advantage of whatever protocols are devised,
to help one learn to see specific things in time or space and to gain specific
information about them, is what we are discussing here. Right?
Hypnosis and hypnotherapy finally freed their origin from 'mesmerism' which
was another boiled-cabbage word. It is time to stride forward boldly into
the real world where even the word 'psychic' (meaning - of the mind) no
longer describes the abilities we are all working to gain and perfect.
Psycho-metry (mind-measure) a made-up word which was used to describe the
gaining of impressions from an object as target, makes much more sense as
'Psi-touch'. (Sorry, it was the only word available in the 70's) We used to
be known as The Psychic Rescue Squad...back in those salad days of the 1960's,
lol
But we're about to enter a new Millenium, folks.
In my humble opinion, we do not want to stumble backward.
No offense, JP.
Bevy J
U. S. Psi Squad
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/675)
22:40:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Damn Bill...if you didn't have a Ph.D. I would say you were on drugs. But
I know better. At least you offer a theoretical explanation and a model for
your belief.
I am not familiar with the parallel universe model of quantum mechanics...so
it might be cool if you could break it down to a user-friendly level...like
an example, analogy or an Event Theory (an actual situation that is concrete
to determine its validity) as opposed to your presented Conceptual Theory.
I suppose you are suggesting that at any one Time Line there are layers.
Would that mean we are still moving forward on the Time Line or only moving
upward/downward (laterally)...or both?
If it is layered, the only problem I see in this is that we would also have
to have a "layered" past and present. Otherwise for every minute that
unfolds it would mean that these multi-layers are dynamically branching off
creating multi-universes.
Also, if we RV the past it would mean that, hypothetically, we meet it with
as less success as we are able to predict the future. Because the same rule
would have to apply uniformly across the Time Line, this would be contrary
to "world class" Remote Viewers who state that the past is much easier to RV
compared to the future.
Another problem that I can see is the movement of consciousness. First, we
would have to define what do you mean by consciousness and in what way does
it seem to possess the characteristic of motion. Then we would have to
establish how do you model the parallel universe. As discrete or continuous
horizontal function.
I have a hunch that the reason "they" say that we are unable to view the
future as easily is because of an improper definition or concept of how
Remote Viewers model the future. Meaning for example, as in the days of
Columbus, the people had the wrong model of the Earth as flat. So every
calculation to "see" future land came down to mythological stories.
Eventually, they got the model right. A round Earth. Thus a better
perspective and calculations (not to mention new and accurate land
discoveries) took place. This would mean your model deviates from the norm,
and thus can provide some new insights of thinking of new "future" models.
Actually, I would be very interested in finding out where present Remote
Viewers assimilated their present model interpretation of the future. That
is, what makes them think that the future keeps changing even though they
can still predict it accurately as it is constantly changing . I can't
think of any philosopher (although it has a tinge of Heraclitus) or
Scientist that has elaborated on that particular model...have any ideas?
electrix
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/676)
22:40:12
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
was: Re: [stargate] Changing the future, posted by Electrix:
>Because the same rule
>would have to apply uniformly across the Time Line, this would be contrary
>to "world class" Remote Viewers who state that the past is much easier to RV
>compared to the future.
Hi Electrix, all,
It was either Ed May or James Spottiswoode if my memory serves me right
that said the lab data they have collected says that accuracy does not seem
to be affected whether you are viewing the past, present or future, nor
whether the target cue is written before or after the remote-viewing session
has been completed(!).
But since my sound card failed late Friday/early Saturday, and I haven't
yet been able to get it working since, I haven't been able to pinpoint the exact
show appearance or personality who made the statement. I seem to recall it
was James Spottiswoode, discoverer of the famous dramatic
increase in performance in anomalous cognition trials at 13:30 LST,
and it was his appearance on Sightings on the Radio (at
http://www.audionet.com/shows/endoftheline/, RealAudio Archives,
search for 'James Spottiswoode' and click..), where he makes this
statement.
I remember being distinctly confused and a little suspicious (since
I'd been led to believe otherwise) when Spottiswoode (if it was him)
said that. He also said that while remote-viewers may *think* they're
getting better over time with practice, the lab data they've collected and
analysed does not tend to support that, and accuracy remains fairly
consistent over time. He said he's done RV himself and you *do*
get the impression you're gettign better at distinguishing noise from
signal, but at the end of the day, the lab data does not support that
belief at all.
This would seem to fly in the face of what we've been led to believe,
so I have to wonder, who's right? I'm a famous supporter of lab data,
so if these statement is correct, we might need to re-think what's
being discussed here.
I wish I could offer something more positive. I've listened to
Spottiswoode several times and that's what I recall. If anyone
reading has RealAudio and wouldn't mind listening to the show,
I'd appreciated it if they could confirm the exact words Spottiswoode
(or May, or Radin, or whoever it was, but I'm pretty sure it was
Spottiswoode).
Now.. time for me to jump up and down on this sound card and see if
that helps.. I've tried everything else! When it's plugged in, my
computer is happy, but my speakers don't work and the headphones
won't either, and neither will my CDROM drive's speakers. When it's
unplugged, the computer complains there's no soundcard. I've
checked all my software settings and everything checks out. If anyone
can help, please email me! Thanks!
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/677)
22:40:28
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>>
But if you have more concrete answers...Proof... If your epistemology is
better..please share it. I am willing to change my mind. So far you have not
syllogistically refuted my claims or have provided your proof of why you
believe
in your "future" hypothesis.
>>
Gee. I thought we were talking about abstracts...here...things pretty tough to
prove...but what do I know....as for responding...I am just a stupid dumb Mick
born on the wrong side of the streets in Belfast...it will take me months to
look up all those big words you used before I can even begin to
respond...guess I will just have to be satisfied with living with my own
proofs...things I know that work...let all of you smart people discuss this
among yourselves....
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/678)
22:40:35
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> I've
checked all my software settings and everything checks out. If anyone
can help, please email me! Thanks!
Best regards,
Steve.
>>
First view the past to see how and why it worked then...then view the present
to see what is causing the malfunction, then view the future to see how you
fixed it...What could be easier....
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/679)
22:41:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Upon my discharge from The United States Air Force in 1970, I was made
aware that an EEG objectified abnormal Delta wave patterns. I am unsure of the
etiology for this occurrence ( I had incurred several head traumas and exposure
to xenobiotics and chemicals subsequent to a prior, normal EEG ).
I have a bifurcated question on this point; would a physiological
change due to trauma be the most likely cause for this, or can exposures play a
role? Secondly, what effect(s), if any, can abnormal Delta waves play in
relation to remote viewing?
Sincerely,
Ron (Sky)
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/680)
22:41:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
On Sat, 01 Aug 1998 17:19:03 PDT, Bill Pendergrass wrote:
>Thanks for putting out this question electrix and Vicki.
I think it was actually, just Electrix, I was merely trying to gather an
opinion regarding the content of collective consciousness/unconsciousness
or the validity of that content regarding future.
If everyone's perceptions/thoughts make up a sort of consciousness queue.
Why shouldn't the same theory apply for unconsciousness? It's my
understanding that remote viewing takes place in the unconscious,
so...wouldn't what is perceived at that level become part of that
collective (un)consciousness and wouldn't it include AOL's as well?
My knowledge of collective consciousness/unconsciousness is minimal at best
and ranks right up there with what I know about remote viewing...keeping
that in mind..be gentle.
>..[snip]...The parallel universe model of quantum mechanics...[snip]
I think it only fair to tell you, Bill, that the only mechanics I can speak
about with any sort of knowledge are the ones at Frank's, who informed me
that the red light on the dashboard was not a nightlight ;-)
>..[snip]...and it mandates and infinte number of
>parallel universes and suggests that ones conciousness may track from
>one universe to another. In this case "seeing" the future successfully
>would involve dragging your conciousness to the appropriate time line
>where it can be fulfilled.. Any thoughts?
So...would this mean that in the case of Gene's post regarding the
President...the remote viewers sort of followed many different futures
looking for the one that indicated danger and addressed that one?
Siochain,
Vikki
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future Yaana - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/681)
22:41:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
electrix wrote:
> Excuse me...my fault. I fell into the an argumentative trap I always look to
> avoid....but I ovelooked it.
>
> Free will is a CONCEPT. If I intend to make a premise on this subject....it
will have
> to be defined and agreed by both of us. Otherwise, we would be discussing the
concept
> totally out of sync and the discussion will go nowhere. I would rather keep a
> CONCRETE argument if we do not define conceptual parameters.
>
> I would explain my position to you...but as I can see, you have taken my Free
Will
> concept totally out of the context than what I intended.
You make interesting transitions between "free will" statement and "victim"
statements,
there is nothing consistent about your presentations. This kind of argument is
common for
those who just dodge and weave quoting excerpts from external experts with no
apparent
experience of their own to reference.
> By the way trying doing pro-gression for a change. 20 years of regression can
> certainly be a drag. And maybe you would learn something about the Future of
your
> patients.
What in your experience gives you the right to assume that I don't do
progressions. For
someone who wants to avoid the argumentative trap, you revert to invalidation
very quickly
when faced with questions that arise from direct experience rather than theory.
Actually Regression therapy is very exciting, not a drag at all. It gives one
the tools
to realize when one has been laboring under false beliefs and make conscious
changes,
which profoundly improve the quality of their life. Progressions are part of the
session,
movement backwards and forward through time allows the client to gain
perspective and
experience outside of the immediate stresses which have locked them into a
particular set
of behaviors. Humans are very vulnerable to the effects of distorted,
inaccurate or
incomplete data as the basis for their life decisions, "garbage in garbage out".
The
easiest way to "refresh the data set", is through an experience, from the new
perspective,
new and more productive decisions can be made arising from intelligent
application of free
will. People get locked into unproductive behaviors, because the pressure to
solve the
problem is magnified by polluted data and the harder they work the worse it
gets,
increasing the belief that this is a survival issue.
If you really want to have productive discussions, jump in with both feet, from
your own
experience, not from quotes from others. If you have no personal experience to
speak
from, it is time to go get a life.
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
No More Future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/682)
22:41:49
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>I will go back to my lurk state.
>
>electrix
Please don't.
Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/683)
22:42:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> I've
checked all my software settings and everything checks out. If anyone
can help, please email me! Thanks!
Best regards,
Steve.
>>
First view the past to see how and why it worked then...then view the present
to see what is causing the malfunction, then view the future to see how you
fixed it...What could be easier....
Gene... >>>>>>>>>>>>.
. . . . . ahhhh hahahahh ROTFL.... geezeeeeee Gene, (yep, just basic
common sense) once again solves the problem LOL (you are just sooooo
smart :-)
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/684)
22:42:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> . . . . . ahhhh hahahahh ROTFL.... geezeeeeee Gene, (yep, just basic
>common sense) once again solves the problem LOL (you are just sooooo
>smart :-)
Hi,
You know, I read this thing that Gene typed twice. The first time I thought it
was
a funny joke, then the next time it seemed like a sarcastic dig. I'm not sure
how
to take it.. perhaps Gene could let me know.. I'll take it in the best possible
way though and react how I did the first time.. which was LOL! Thanks =o)
Hope I wasn't wrong the first time..
Regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/685)
22:42:24
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
At 16:34 01/08/98 -0700, you wrote:
>There are two types of internal movements that 'get me
>there' one is like 'sideways paralell' and the other like 'straight up'
>a tunnel. Straight up locks into * simultaneous * fluid 'time'; sideways
>accesses memory, can be past or future memory,
You mentioned internal movements, this is what works for me, and is
consistantly proved successful from eventual feedback. I tape all sessions
for my client.
When I am working clairvoyantly, I take note of where I "see" the images.
The further ahead, the further ahead... ;-) To the right, the outside
world, and the people in it. To the left, the inner person, their own
world, wants, needs, emotions. Behind, is ... the past. So, right and just
behind my shoulder, is an event in the last few days/weeks, where other
folks are involved.
Also, I know these timelines relate to the houses in astrology. So... an
image seen at the 2.o'clock position, but a long long way off, would be say
3 years ahead, and relate to travel, further education, spiritual
development, or a sagittarian etc, depending on the image and my "knowing".
Sounds flakey, but who cares, hey it works for me.
MaryD
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/686)
22:42:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Then perhaps I need to quote you the source of the information:Rosalind
>Catwright, psychoanalyst, Dream Researcher...
>I will tell you what exact episode of The Dream File documentary next time. I
>may even write a short transcript for you. But then again it would be one
>psychologist word against another. But I would opt for the specialist.
Electrix, you are free to opt for any information you choose. Just be
aware that I am not just giving you my opinion or theory. I am giving you
research data that has accumulated for over 30 years, is in every textbook
on the physiology of sleep, and is used daily in every sleep lab in the
world. If you want to ignore that and base your beliefs on a television
show instead, then go ahead.
>Theta by itself does nothing. The STATE of being in Theta is an open
>receptivity.
There is NO "state of theta." This is what I have explained in my last few
posts. There is only localized theta activity reflecting cessation of
function in specific neural centers.
>My point is that this state POTENTIALLY has, as you said "traumatic memory
>[experience]." The abrupt surface, thru artificial or active stimulation, can
>affect health. Do you agree or disagree? Yes or No, please.
I do not understand your question. However, the traumatic memories do not
originate in the theta activity, if this is what you are asking.
>First off, I have mentioned before that our consciousness seeks to avoid the
>"traumatic area" at all cost.
Avoiding traumatic areas is what causes psychological disorders. You seem
to believe that this avoidance is healthy. It isn't.
>Second, Monroe's brainwave signals are made
>up of several mix of brainwave level activities. The signals are not made up
>SOLELY of Theta signal.
The primary effect of most TMI tapes is theta enhancement. You will never
find the brain solely in theta. There is no such state.
> Three, The signal themselves have a WIDE spectrum to
>cover between the signals.
I have no idea what you are trying to describe here.
>Fourth, one sample of who knows how many, but I
>recently had a friend listening to a Metamusic tape when affected is immune
>system. It stirred up a cold and sinusitis.
How do you know your friend would have not gotten sick if he/she hadn't
listened to the tape?
>> I have seen many, many individuals taught to increase theta and I have seen
>> *no* evidence of long term harm.
>
>Can I ask, what studies did you get the above information?
This is my own personal observation of individuals undergoing theta training.
Best regards,
Michael
R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D.
Corporate and Clinical Psychologist
42 Lenox Pointe
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/687)
22:42:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>> Hi,
You know, I read this thing that Gene typed twice. The first time I thought
it was
a funny joke, then the next time it seemed like a sarcastic dig. I'm not
sure how
to take it.. perhaps Gene could let me know.. I'll take it in the best
possible
way though and react how I did the first time.. which was LOL! Thanks =o)
Hope I wasn't wrong the first time..
Regards,
Steve.
---- >>
Lighten up Steve...quit being so Saxon and let your Celtic side show itself a
little...it is meant as nothing more than another of my little bits of
sarcastic humor..to those who see it as a dig...well they probably have it
coming...to you Steve...it was simple charming Irish wit....
Gene..
(now your're really confused ...right?)
stargate : Message: [stargate]
J.McMoneagle - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/688)
22:43:11
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>Bevy..asked if anyone had any information on how Joe was doing.
>>Well, heard from him this afternoon, and all is progressing well. He
had a little complication after returning home and had to go back to
the hospital for a couple of days. But, that was taken care of and he
is getting stronger.
I told him we were all keeping him in our prayers.
Arlene
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
squeezeing stage4! - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/689)
22:43:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi again, nice to see all the chat on "Future" starting to fade a
little...
I personally love the stage 4 matrix, I really like that by this stage you
have a good repartoir with the target and that stage 4 allows you freedom of
the target but..One of the questions I'd like to hear from the ex-military
guy's is if they have any tips for sqeezing a little more data from the
stage 4 matrix.
All the best...
Darryl
We came...
We saw...
We wrote a session summery...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Rving the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/690)
22:43:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>There are a few people who can rv the future in a consistent and
>accurate manner, I guess...
WHO JERRY? Can you name names?
Regards, Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/691)
22:43:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi Michael,
So it appears that you would agree at least that theta training is a
productive altered state. Do you see it associated with OOBE's and EVR
like states? Finally, ADD people many times suffer spontaneous little
trance like states. These are not petit mal,, not seizures, but their
attention is totally captured by something in the environment or a
thought. Is this the presence of the Theta state? And Are ADD's more
psychic when in this state?
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Theta - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/692)
22:43:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Bill: Michael can you give a reference to learning that technique. I
would like to experiemnt with it?
Michael wrote:
>
>Bill,
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/693)
22:44:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi Electrix,
Hell, I know plenty of PhD's and MD's on drugs, especially back in the
70's....but not little old me at least not now. However, it's a little
disconcerting that if I did not have a PhD, you would dismiss my case!It
is based on some sound principles.
>
>Damn Bill...if you didn't have a Ph.D. I would say you were on drugs.
But
>I know better. At least you offer a theoretical explanation and a
model for
>your belief.
>
>I am not familiar with the parallel universe model of quantum
mechanics...so
>it might be cool if you could break it down to a user-friendly
level...like
>an example, analogy or an Event Theory (an actual situation that is
concrete
>to determine its validity) as opposed to your presented Conceptual
Theory.
The multiple worlds model of Quantum Mechanics proposes that every time
a quantum change occurs the universe splits into two parts say with an
electron moved to a higher orbit in the H2 molecule. Both universes
exist as possibilities and we move into one or the other and that
becomes our world. We move into a world by simply "observing" it. Or
observing the consequences of it. Thus "seeing " the future psychically
may actually perform the same act as observing things in real time...it
commits us to that "world". And who knows, maybe positive thinking can
move one to a different world state, or intense visualization. But
psychic input may be the strongest of these "nonreal" "committers". If
so this kind of psychic information may be our ONLY source of true free
will. Other changes are all dictated by the sum of the quantum states.
Of course most "worlds" are exactly the same except for microscopic
changes, but gradually major differences in timelines develope based on
oogleplex quantum changes.
>I suppose you are suggesting that at any one Time Line there are
layers.
>Would that mean we are still moving forward on the Time Line or only
moving
>upward/downward (laterally)...or both?
The model I'm using only talks about forward movement, and lateral
movement ( into other world lines) but other models of quantum mechanics
do propose backward movement...but one thing at a time!
>
>If it is layered, the only problem I see in this is that we would also
have
>to have a "layered" past and present. Otherwise for every minute that
>unfolds it would mean that these multi-layers are dynamically branching
off
>creating multi-universes.
YES THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS! However, we could not access other
pasts then the past that led directly to our current state. Transfer
from one Universe to another is prohibited by mundane methods anyway.
>
>Also, if we RV the past it would mean that, hypothetically, we meet it
with
>as less success as we are able to predict the future. Because the same
rule
>would have to apply uniformly across the Time Line, this would be
contrary
>to "world class" Remote Viewers who state that the past is much easier
to RV
>compared to the future.
NO, because you must stay in the same time line you are now in..at least
as I understand this difficult area. And that is exactly what RVers do
describe. That the past is concrete.
NOW TO GET TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION: If you choose to RV a question that
contains most of the potential world lines then it should be very
possible. My example of seeing whether or NOT Geron COULD CONCEIVABLE
make drugs that slow aging. Please say you get this! No one has tackled
this original question.
>
>Another problem that I can see is the movement of consciousness.
First, we
>would have to define what do you mean by consciousness and in what way
does
>it seem to possess the characteristic of motion. Then we would have to
>establish how do you model the parallel universe. As discrete or
continuous
>horizontal function.
No actually the physicists went ahead with their model in a carefree
mood without defining conciousness or even dealing with it. EXCEPT it
must move with each observation of quantum change or it would not work.
The fact that observation of a quantum change is needed to make that
change real is completely verified and finally accepted.
................snip.........
>
There are a large number of popular books out on this premise. I will
get some references later and post them. Got to get going now or I will
miss my Tee time.
Warm Regards Electrix,
Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/694)
22:44:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi Steve,
Interesting points all, but has anyone out there confirmed the 13:30
galactic noon increase in psi ability?
Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/695)
22:44:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Hi Vikki,
Damn, I'm going to miss that tee time for sure now! But you asked a
specific question, and I'll do my best. Remember my degree is in
biochemistry and physics is just my passionate hobby.
........
>If everyone's perceptions/thoughts make up a sort of consciousness
queue.
>Why shouldn't the same theory apply for unconsciousness?
GOOD QUESTION: I DON'T REALLY KNOW. I suspect that real time observation
counts the most and absolutely commits us to the world were in...but
subconcious...psychic....visualization...thinking. Could all contain
some diminished ability to affect out universe. Of course the real
physicists haven't come to grips with that question, and may consider it
erroneous. But if you believe in psi, you must consider that
possibility.
......snip.......
>
>So...would this mean that in the case of Gene's post regarding the
>President...the remote viewers sort of followed many different futures
>looking for the one that indicated danger and addressed that one?
YES, they saw one possible world line which contained an assassination
plot. They then took action which made that world line impossible, so
we followed another. But if they had taken no action, it may well have
occurred, or may not have, had the world followed another world line
anyway. But that one ( with the assassination) should have been more
likely at least than before "seeing it" . This is a little different
than seeing a random event; however, since the assassins may have
already made plans which Liam's group picked up rather than saw it in
the future.
Regards,
Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Changing the future - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/696)
22:44:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Bravo Bill and Electrix. Actually RVing the future is probably the basis for
most accurate sessions, but not being trained in RV I have enjoyed the past
couple of days worth of posts.
Regards,
Ken
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Lab Data - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/697)
22:45:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
> You know, I read this thing that Gene typed twice. The first time I thought
it was
> a funny joke, then the next time it seemed like a sarcastic dig. I'm not sure
how
> to take it.. perhaps Gene could let me know.. I'll take it in the best
possible
> way though and react how I did the first time.. which was LOL! Thanks =o)
>
> Hope I wasn't wrong the first time..
>
> Regards,
> Steve.
>From what I have been reading here it would seem to depend upon which
timeline you picked or has been picked for you by others. Does that mean
there are several possible fixes to the problem or that there was no
problem in the first place? Now that its fixed can you be certain it was
broken?
Rich
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future Yaana - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/698)
22:45:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
Yaana Allen wrote:
> What in your experience gives you the right to assume that I don't do
progressions. For
> someone who wants to avoid the argumentative trap, you revert to invalidation
very quickly
> when faced with questions that arise from direct experience rather than
theory.
>
You are absolutely right. There...does that make you feel better?Now, if you
could only treat
me with the kind compassion you do to your patients we might be able to resolve
our
personality differences.
> If you really want to have productive discussions, jump in with both feet,
from your own
> experience, not from quotes from others. If you have no personal experience
to speak
> from, it is time to go get a life.
Yaana...first off, relaying information without giving its source credit is
plagiarism and
deceiving. Second, I seek those sources that support MY hypothesis and theories
to make a
solid case or deem it necessary to discard. Third, I live in this
past/present/future world
for god sakes! How can I possibly not be speaking from EXPERIENCE? Fourth, you
are absolutely
right again... I need to go get a life. I am sitting here typing to you to
placate your ego.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future Yaana - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/699)
22:46:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000601-000700---------
>>
Yaana...first off, relaying information without giving its source credit is
plagiarism and
deceiving. Second, I seek those sources that support MY hypothesis and
theories to make a
solid case or deem it necessary to discard. Third, I live in this
past/present/future world
for god sakes! How can I possibly not be speaking from EXPERIENCE? Fourth,
you are absolutely
right again... I need to go get a life. I am sitting here typing to you to
placate your ego.
electrix >>
Make sure everyone reads the above note very carefully...see that I do not
have my name in it anywhere...would not want Steve trying to toss me off the
site again for being snippish....this time I am not involved....hehehehehe
Gene..
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Future......a wide selection - (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/700)
22:46:28
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Everything you wanted to know about the future but were afraid to ask.
http://www.newage.com.au/library/earth.faq/earth.faq.index.html
Sorry, no mention of a plant pathogen. :)
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